Scoble vs. Apple
Scoble’s Mac crashed, Scoble rants — par for the course. (Earlier this year he had it out for me, too, but cooler heads prevailed.) But he did bring up a lot of interesting points, some sound, some not.
Robert, as someone in the media who works with Apple (just as I work with dozens, if not hundreds of other companies), here’s some of what you’ve got wrong (and right):
[At dinner with a bunch of "smart" entrepreneurs] “I tried to turn on my video camera. They all instantly shut up and said ‘no video.’” – You’re damn right they did! They’re smart, and they’re entrepreneurs. What person with a startup would want to go on a tear against a major company they might one day partner with, be acquired by, lose employees to, etc.? No smart businessperson — especially someone out on their own — would go on camera trashing Microsoft, Apple, Google, etc., unless they wanted to make headlines that might reflect poorly on them later. I doubt it’s as much to do with the cachet as you think.
If you want to hear people (trash) talk, talk to tech journos, whose jobs it is to be honest and on the record about tech companies. Let me put this another way: don’t be surprised all the time when people don’t want to go on camera for the ScobleShow, not everyone wants their every conversation and criticism preserved as public record.
“Apple has an ARMY of people who are anonymous who will come and call you every name in the book. I know.” – Oh yes, they definitely do, and they say the same to me. Although there are also tons of people on the other side of the camp who call me an Apple fanboy, so it’s good times. It’s the whole Mac vs. PC thing, and it’s so tiring. Besides, exactly what did you think was going to happen when you ranted about Apple? Bill Gates would send you flowers?
“The common thing about most of these comments is that it’s MY FAULT that my Apple machine is having trouble. See, on my Windows machine I’m willing to accept this.” – Wait, huh? You’re willing to lower your standards of what’s an acceptable user experience just because it’s Microsoft? No, no, man. You’ve got it the wrong way. Every company and product should be held to the same standards of quality. I don’t really care what they chose their hardware ecosystem to be like, crashy is crashy, good is good, smart is smart. But that’s besides the point. The point is all computers have failures, and you shouldn’t be angrier or more disappointed when it’s either your Mac or your PC.
“See, I know Apple sends free hardware to certain journalists. But only those it deems ‘important.’ Steven Levy. Walt Mossberg. Those types.” – Yes and no. Yes, for a journalist, Apple has the highest barrier of entry of any company out there — that’s no secret. I actually don’t think that’s always bad thing, there’s nothing worse than fighting for a seat at a keynote with the dude whose friend started ultragadgets.blogspot.com last week and needed a correspondent to fill in, you know? Go on…
“…they know they got picked because they generally write pro-Apple stuff.” – While it’s also true Apple hand-selects the publications it chooses to interface with, I don’t think that’s wholly true. Two reasons. First: Apple interfaces with a lot of press that are by no means going to give them an easy go of things. Ars Technica, for example, is invited to all their events, and Ars is an upstanding and skeptical publication. Another example: right before my Leopard briefing out walks my pal Harry McCracken. Do you think friggin PC World is generally expected to write a gushing review of Apple hardware or software? (Yes, I know they did — and we were all pleasantly surprised, so what does that tell you?)
Second: Look at who gets the iPhone in advance. Mossberg, Pogue, Baig, Levy — the Wall St. Journal, New York Times, USA Today, and Newsweek. Now, it’s not like anyone can pretend that Pogue, for example, doesn’t make money from writing books about Apple products. And there’s no question that the core iPhone audience is at sites like Engadget — but it’s also not like these publications aren’t paragons of print journalism! I’m obviously all for new media being placed on level ground, there’s nothing I’d like more than to get early review units from Apple just like I get them from every other company. But let’s not forget the net those four publications cast, which I’d estimate covers something like 60-75% of all consumed daily / weekly US print news media. Getting your product out in front of people is what will sell units, period.
“It’s a reason why I don’t want free stuff and why I waited in line to be among the first in the Valley to have my own iPhone.” – Well, that and the fact that you’re not a professional consumer electronics reviewer.
“Only those who will give Apple a fair shake will get the goods.” – I think you’re trying to say only those who will favor Apple will get the goods. I can’t say conclusively there, but I do know that I’ve written very critical reviews of Apple hardware before, and yet their team still works with us. So I don’t think it’s as bad as they get a wrap for. Again, I just think the selectivity level is far higher.
“You will have to BUY your Apple after those ‘famous journalists’ get to use one for free for two weeks and you vil like it.” – Um, oook. I’m not saying I wouldn’t love to be on Steve’s shortlist of early-seeds for gadgets, but let’s be fair here, every consumer electronics company in the business seeds review units to high profile publications. That’s their job. It sounds like you’re bitter that Apple isn’t seeding MORE early-release hardware like most other CE companies. I hear that, everyone in the biz does. But everyone has their way. TiVo, for example, wouldn’t work with Engadget at all until only recently. Crazy, I know, but companies just do their thing.
“Any idiot can use an Apple machine (that’s what they tell you before you buy one) but if your machine crashes then you must be a ‘genius’ to fix it” – Ha! That’s an amazing turn of phrase. Well played.
“my son twice has been turned away from genius bars because they were too busy and was told to ‘come back tomorrow at 10 a.m.’” – As a former tech at a walk-in repair facility (CompUSA) I’m not sure where I see the problem. If you don’t schedule an appointment in advance and aren’t happy to wait in line behind the other people being serviced (many of whom DID make an appointment), then your best bet is to come back later. This is the same as any other tech services company or chain.
“If you dare complain about the brand promise you’ll get pounced on by hoardes of annonymous astroturfing Apple FanBois.” [sic] – Sounds about right.
“If you don’t get the brand promise of Apple don’t attempt to point out that the ads are ridiculous.” – While I love Hodgman and find the ads amusing, if not sometimes hilarious, they are indeed also ridiculous. They perpetuate the same tired PC / Mac negativity that fanboys and pundits have been feeding off of for literally decades. It’s a tired argument. Both platforms do amazing things, both take different approaches. Both are good for whom they’re good for, and when I look for new writers, I look for cross-platformers — especially those who run the wildcard third option: Linux.
“If you use an Apple machine you will be as cool as Kevin Rose.” – Wait, are you harshing on Apple or Kevin, now?
“I’m back on my Sony Vaio, which has never crashed the way my Mac did the other night.” – Really? I’ve owned two Sony Vaios and they’re the most near-impeccably designed, absolutely dreadful machines. See also Jeremy Toeman, who at first LOVED his Vaio (like we all do at first), then grew to hate it something fierce. Not that Apples are necessarily better, that’s not the moral of the story. The moral is lots of computers have issues, not just Macs. And I do still miss my Vaios. (I gave my last one to my mom, so at least it’s still in the family.)
Ok, everybody feel better now?
I'm an editor and technology critic in the midst of founding a new web startup:


Yeah, good points. I went overboard attacking the journalists.
I know lots of people had trouble with their Vaios, but this one has been damn solid for some reason.
Oh, and Kevin Rose? That actually was not an attack on either one! I think Kevin is actually pretty cool.
Anyway, my main point was that the ads piss me off because they promise me something that they aren’t delivering.
My point about the genius bars is that they don’t have enough genius’s behind the bar to take care of demand. It’s not about waiting in line. That’s reasonable to do. After all, it’s like the DMV. But, “come back tomorrow cause we can’t take care of you today?” That’s NOT reasonable and it’s NOT with keeping up with the brand promise that Apple is making in many of its ads. Did you see the one where they use the genius bar as an example of something that Apple does better than Windows? I never have had trouble getting help at Best Buy, for instance.
[...] by Scoble vs. Apple » Ryan Block — November 17, 2007 @ 8:36 [...]
Maybe I just suck at customer service then! Also a possibility. Heh.
Ryan: did you ever send people away with “come back tomorrow cause we don’t have enough support people?” If so, that might explain why Best Buy took over almost every American market. :-)
By the way, I added a link to your post here in my post cause I think it did a good job of pointing out my flaws.
I’d never send anyone away, but if they were unhappy with the wait I’d have no problem suggesting they come back another time (or call ahead). But the fact is if you’re all booked up for the day you’re all booked up, I’m not sure it would be fair to have you guys waiting there for 6 hours to get help if you might not even get it before the store closes. If I were running any repair shop business, the people who call ahead and make an appointment would get first priority… doesn’t that sound reasonable?
I don’t think it IS reasonable, actually. Not if you are going to try to keep your brand promise intact and if you have marketing like this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R0tLubCFdyM you should make sure you have enough “genius’s” to keep up with the demand.
But, I guess that’s just me. Certainly hasn’t hurt Apple yet, cause they are selling more than ever.
Hasn’t hurt me, either, cause all I do is need to rant on my blog and there’s tons of people to tell me what to do, even at 10 p.m. on a Thursday night.
My car dealer, by the way, hands me a loaner right when I walk in with my car. Apple’s never done that.
Good points I have to agree…JS
Best Buy? Really? Last place I would want to shop.
Yeah, I hate having to make an appt. with an Apple Genius. The great upside is, I am not wasting my time and I don’t have to worry about the place being packed the day I walk in. It makes sense to have to make an appt. because Apple cares about your time and their time. But they do have a lot of people working there, at least in Columbus, OH. The place is swarming with Apple people willing to help.
Geez, I guess Apple is set to a different standard. Where are the MSFT stores? Where do you take your XBox when it dies the ring of death?
Sorry, but Robert makes it sound like the people attending the genius bars are all having hardware issues, and therefor that Macs are unreliable.
In reality they are “The place to go for advice, insight, and hands-on technical support.”
“Why visit the Genius Bar?
Mac Geniuses provide face-to-face tips and advice, answer your questions, and do repairs when necessary. You might be wondering how to go wireless, how to download music to your iPod, or how to update your software. Mac Geniuses are there to help with your technical concerns.”
http://www.apple.com/retail/geniusbar/
All Excellent Points.
I do think this is mostly theraputic at this point. Scoble just got upset when his high expectation of Mac ultimate supremacy were not met.
I think what is very important to remember is that Apple charges Ridiculous premium for their Hardware/Software. Naturally, for people to justify the extra expense, they reason they must be buying superious product.
Truth is, with current hardware/software and functionality complexity, there are prone to be problems, no matter which brand you buy into.
To clarify my Vaio experience… I had a SZ160, it was great. It got stolen. I replaced it (or, more appropriately, my insurance replaced it) with the SZ460, it is JUNK. Do NOT purchase the Vaio VGN-SZ460N, the hardware is ridiculously terrible.
After 10 weeks with the SZ460 and Sony’s pathetic implementation of Vista, I bought a MacBook. I’m still not the biggest OSX fan, but at under half the price of the Vaio, it is unquestionably the best option on the market…
If Scoble is so-o-o concerned about Patrick being told to come back to the Genius Bar later, the remedy is simple. Purchase ProCare. Then, no appointment is needed and the computer will be repaired the same day, if possible.
Apples “Scoble Department”
Robert Scobles broken Mac made some waves in the blogosphere (see ZDNet, Ryan Block, Fake Steve Jobs). And of course it’s in Techmeme and blogrunner). I want to be a part of this too.
Making appointments suck, but the few times I’ve had to do it at the Genius Bar I’ve gotten exceptional service (like replacing an obviously defective battery that the Apple telephone support wouldn’t touch at all). In fact, I *love* that they do that, because the alternative is waiting on line with a number at Tekserve for an unknown amount of time, because they won’t take appointments.
IMHO, the better user experience is calling ahead and knowing *exactly* when to show up and get helped, but I know some people really want that walk-in experience. Point is, I’ve never gotten good service from anyone like that in any industry — good doctors/consultants/etc. are in plenty of demand and they need to schedule their time. But walk-in experiences *are* a crap-shoot — even emergency rooms have waiting lines.
I am a cross platform guy who is more of a jock than a techno geek, although I love to build and upgrade, as well as fix any computers. But it still gets me angry that someone calls me a Mac fanboy when I post something positive, but no one does anything like that when I post something positive about Windows. The both sides should settle down, but at least the Mac fanboys don’t personally attack me for liking my custom built Windows rig. OK, I vented. Sorry. Good post Ryan.
Mr. Scoble says; “Anyway, my main point was that the ads piss me off because they promise me something that they aren’t delivering.”
The point of advertising is not to exercise virtue. Does McDonald’s deliver what they imply? A consumer society is a lie at it’s foundation. Media as a whole is the creation of lies to manipulate us or compensate us. It is hard to call down MS or Apple on lying when we look at our government.
Like Mr. Scoble, I also let some lies bother me more than others, but I find computer and gadget ads fairly far down my list. These are only worth mentioning in the context of reporting or disgusting greater sins.
Apple’s Brand Promise
I will start this post by stating I have been an Apple convert for about 5 years now. Not your typical Apple Cult Fanboy, but a fan nonetheless. I started with a 12in Powerbook and have not looked back since. I own everything from an iPhone to a new 20…
[...] November 18, 2007 Honestly, does Scoble know how to temper his emotions? I am all for being passionate et al, but this guy can’t moderate his highs or lows. In the past years, he’s [...]
The Genius Bars are run like car repair shops. I don’t know what Robert is driving, but most of the people I know have to make appointments to get their cars fixed, and they don’t get loaners for however long it is out of service. There are only so many hours in a workday, it’s just childish to suggest that any repair facility, CE or other, should always be able to fix YOUR problem the instant you let them know you have it.
And you can try to take your Mac to a 3rd party repair facility instead of the dealer (yeah I am using car repair terms on purpose). Best Buy sells Macs now, but I would you let them take a crack at your Mac?
Hey Ryan,
Just curious but how many PC-bashing articles have you spent an hour of your valuable time disputing. I just find it odd that whenever Apple seems to be attacked then even the media finds themselves unconsciously wasting their time defending Apple.
As both a mac and windows user I just find it annoying that the media is so slanted towards defending Apple yet rarely come to the defense of anyone else.
I just wanted to point out something after reading numerous other articles inspired by Scoble’s rant.
Why is nobody defending Vista? Sure, Vista is a service pack away from being a great OS but if you look around the internet then EVERYONE seems to be bashing it. And I think it would be safe to say that the most vocal attacks are by non-Vista users (ahem.. mac fanatics). Yet nobody takes any of them to task for their comments.
Isn’t that a bit irresponsible for the media to take only one side of this extremely outdated Mac vs PC debate? I’d like to see more journalists stop fearing the hordes of Mac “enthusiasts” and just write the truth about OS’s regardless of whether it’s bad or good news.
You know, if you’re having trouble with your machine and need immediate help, you can just call AppleCare. I’m not sure why you’d want to schlep over to an Apple Store when you have a telephone. A couple of years ago I was having problems with an iBook and we managed to rule out a lot of stuff on the phone, so when it became clear somebody had to look at the actual machine, it was worth the effort to go over to the store and do that.
I’ve also had Apple arrange warranty replacements of hardware over the phone and overnight me a box to send the old stuff back in.
It’s just hard to take someone complaining about the wait at the store seriously when they seem to be ignoring the obvious first step in getting support. I’ve found Apple’s support to be pretty good. Not perfect, but well above average.
Scoble thinks those who are criticizing him are buying into some masochistic Apple user mentality, when really the issue is that he seems to have used absolutely no common sense in dealing with his issue.
(And I have criticized the ads in the past, actually; I think they’re clever but bad, because they don’t really speak to potential customers, and they overpromise. The fact that Scoble’s right about that doesn’t make the ranting any less silly, though.)
If you want to read Vista apologists, go to Paul Thurrotts windows supersite, zdnet, as well as the enderlegroup.com group or whatever the spell it. there are many more sites. PCmag didn’t bother much with Apple in their top 100 electronic stuff of all time, but mention one product from years ago. there are plenty. the media is far from one sided. I read more anti-Apple articles than pro. Sorry but I disagree with you. By the way, Leopard and Tiger are just ‘fantastic’ and I cannot find anything bad for the average user. XP ain’t so bad either, but it is just the damn virus and malware writers that take a lot fun out of it. I can’t blame Microsoft for those buttheads. I spend way too much time updating our 4 PC’s/laptop with anti-malware apps. Using Windows comes with a cost of insecurity, which would not be so bad for a single computer, but gets tedious when you need to care for several, IMO.
As a side note, Ballmers’ recent interview,I think with ZDNet, showed a calm, smart, gentleman. He never said even close to a bad comment towards the competition. I think that the MAC vs PC ads from Apple have outlasted their usefulness. [big yawn here]
Isn’t Scoble a Windows stooge masquerading as a Apple User!
I am sorry sorry Robert had a bad experience (or his son) at the Genious Bar. I agree with Ryan, buy ProCare. I use my machines for my lively-hood, and cannot afford to be down. It is worth the extra expense of ProCare to get that fast service. In addition Applecare is the extra insurance that I make sure I am not paying through the nose for repairs. But then, I am not the casual user, so my needs are probably are more than the normal person. But Robert claims to use his MacBook Pro as his work tool, if that is the case, he should make sure he has all the service tools in place to get fast service. In the 90s when I used Thinkpads and was on the road, I had the extended service agreement to make sure that I could be up within hours of a failure. It just makes sense. And no, i am no fanboy, it just happens to be the toolset I am currently using. And I am not saying Apple is perfect, far from it, but better than other manufacturers. But since they are not perfect, I make sure I have tools and agreements in place to keep going.
But then again, I am not Robert Scoble, so I am not a celebrity, so I guess I do not expect free stuff ;)
Hey Ryan, keep up the good writing, always a pleasure to read your blog.
Namaste ;)
Nobody’s defending Vista because it’s just so undefendably bad. As I’ve said and been quoted on: worst mistake since Windows ME.
Seriously? Upset that an advert was misleading? Wow. Scoble must hate himself if he buys fast food and notices that the food doesn’t look at all the same in the picture as on the plate. I personally do not trust someone who is supposed to have so much expertise using technology but blows up in a childish rant when his computer has issues. Anyone that’s been around computers for a while expects problems to arise and his rant sort of doesn’t add up from that perspective.
I’d also take issue with Scoble’s use of the term “astroturfing” (“If you dare complain about the brand promise you’ll get pounced on by hoardes of annonymous astroturfing Apple FanBois.”)
As I understand it, astroturfing is when a company makes a buzz by creating the impression of grass-roots support, usually by hiring a publicity firm. Say what you will about the Apple faithful, they are genuine, if a bit overzealous.
[...] recent outburst over Apple and their support, thanks to Fake Steve drawing attention to his post. Engadget’s Ryan Block has a good counter point to Scoble’s arguments, but putting aside the more contentious points [...]
[...] Wer zudem noch weitere Argumente gegen Scobles Thesen lesen möchte, der kann beispielsweise “Scoble vs Apple” (engl.) von Ryan Block [...]